They didn’t claim that. They said even progressive women will leave you, meaning they have that issue with all the usual suspects, but also progressive women.
There’s degrees to everything, though. There’s plenty of traits I think are perfectly okay for people to have, but that I’m still not looking for in a partner. So I guess I probably also fail your purity test.
Man, that’s even more confused. So you can be heteronormatively horny, but only as long as you acknowledge the possibility of boning outside your comfort zone? If gender nonconforming sex happens in the hypothetical woods does anybody hear it?
Honestly, that’d be kinda funny if it wasn’t such a depressing proxy for leftist purity tests and frequent inability to accept any intermediate states between utopian idealized outcomes and right wing dystopia.
No obviously not. I wouldn’t date black or Asian folks for instance, or fat people, or dumb people or overly outdoorsy folks or a right-winger or a religious person or anyone under 5’10". I’ll happily stand to defend all those folks rights and I’ll stand by them hand in hand in solidarity, we just won’t fuck.
This is ok. This is normal. When it comes to personal association, especially sexual, freedom of association - is a core tenet of any libertarian socially progressive ideology worth it’s salt. And that’s the kind of progressive I’m down for.
You know, I was pretty assured on my line of reasoning here until I read “I wouldn’t date black or Asian folks” and… eeeeh, maybe there’s room for nuance here.
In my defense, I’ll say it’s the way of putting it that feels icky more than the sentiment. But still. Kinda ew. Don’t know if this was a Socratic, reverse psychology thing, but if so, well played.
It’s both really, I actually do hold that viewpoint as described in the original comment, but I also wanted to say it in a way that conveyed why some folks might be made uncomfortable by rhetoric like that.
I definitely agree it’s how you say it - but also where and when and how much you say it.
I think such preferences are fine obviously, but I’d question the motives of anyone who goes around claiming that often and considers it a large part of their identity. Context is everything in the end.
Well, yeah, but that’s the point. It’s “I’m not into that”, as opposed to “I wouldn’t date X type of people”. The point is you can not be into things without it being a political statement. Even if your political line of choice tends to favor a particular aesthetic.
You lost me there. Aesthetic? Maybe a statement of preference in a certain context like a public forum on an unrelated subject, yes, can be a political statement, but the preference itself is completely apolitical in nature, IMO. This isn’t art, it’s just a matter of whether you’re into something or not sexually, which is usually something that comes before a political viewpoint, or any conscious thought for that matter.
Why would you be? You can be absolutely aware of the social patterns imposed on you, including those that are discriminatory or unfair, and still be subject to their effects.
Humans build a lot of their psyche by socializing. From aesthetic preference to sexual arousal or choices of flavor and texture for food. You’re not a hypocrite for not liking spicy food growing up in a culture with milder tastes and you’re not a hypocrite for finding traditional gendered aesthetics attractive after growing up in a culture that reinforced them at you at every turn.
You’re a hypocrite if you find those distasteful or exploitative and still perpetuate them forward to your kids, but even if you don’t, you’re not the only influence they have.
See, that’s why this is a bit of a bummer. This fiction on leftist circles that you can change a deeply ingrained societal pattern overnight or you’re a failure or a hypocrite is not just unrealistic, it’s kind of ignorant and mean spirited. You should be concerned with not making things worse and moving them in the right direction, but you shouldn’t always take the maximalist approach and assume you’re responsible for enforcing overnight radical change.
That’s how right wingers keep setting up their dumb absurdity checks. They just dare progressives to go maximal on every stupid detail and then point at it and call it a lack of common sense. You can recognize a consequence of inequality without enforcing a complete solution instantly. Change takes time, even on an individual level.
Huh? I didn’t dismiss either OP’s or the other commenters’s experience.
But I’m not going to jump to conclusions blindly at your say-so or he-said-she-said or your insults, because when you look at statistics: consistently, across a decade, across all age groups, women are far more supportive of LGBT folks, even the T in the UK (TERF Island).
I know this is a popular go-to thought terminating cliche for “bothsidesbad” type people, but beyond empathizing, what do you expect me to do exactly?
I am sorry to hear you had shitty experiences with progressive women. I had only good experiences with women period, even those on the older side, and I’m a trans woman in the UK. It’s your word against mine unless we have studies and data and statistics, and unless you can demonstrate me some to support an actual argument, this conversation is pointless.
If you have no such data, then at least pose a hypothetical, proposes a mechanical explanation, suggest methodological flaws in existing data, but don’t expect the world to adjust to your experiences or opinions.
Aight, so you are just trolling by saying random words with no meaning or relevance. Shouldn’t you be called smoothestsapphic instead because you’re a fucking smooth brain?
Reflect on that and grow the fuck up and speak like an adult.
Go on then enlighten me, what am I missing? What is it that I’m not self reflecting on? I’m the most self-aware person I know frankly, but I’m happy to accept I have blind spots, eager, even, so stop posturing and start talking.
IME of having dated mostly progressive women… they are the ones perpetuating it the most while shouting in public that they aren’t doing that. Or that they can’t be biased because they are women and therefore nothing they think is wrong… only men can be homophobic in their minds.
It’s definitely a thing but i doubt it’s progressive women who are perpetuating it.
They didn’t claim that. They said even progressive women will leave you, meaning they have that issue with all the usual suspects, but also progressive women.
doesn’t count as a true Scotsman fallacy if I assume they aren’t really progressive.
but you can’t be progressive if you have an issue with queer people or anyone bending gender boundaries.
There’s degrees to everything, though. There’s plenty of traits I think are perfectly okay for people to have, but that I’m still not looking for in a partner. So I guess I probably also fail your purity test.
Okay, but are you banned from progressivism if you’re not into them sexually?
That’s a hell of an onus. Like, you literally need to work yourself up to being horny for “anyone bending gender boundaries” or you’re out?
you aren’t obligated to be attracted to anyone.
but if you have a rule that intentionally discriminates someone, then sort of. there’s some work for them to do internally.
Man, that’s even more confused. So you can be heteronormatively horny, but only as long as you acknowledge the possibility of boning outside your comfort zone? If gender nonconforming sex happens in the hypothetical woods does anybody hear it?
Honestly, that’d be kinda funny if it wasn’t such a depressing proxy for leftist purity tests and frequent inability to accept any intermediate states between utopian idealized outcomes and right wing dystopia.
That’s a BrandNewSentence if I’ve ever seen any.
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No obviously not. I wouldn’t date black or Asian folks for instance, or fat people, or dumb people or overly outdoorsy folks or a right-winger or a religious person or anyone under 5’10". I’ll happily stand to defend all those folks rights and I’ll stand by them hand in hand in solidarity, we just won’t fuck.
This is ok. This is normal. When it comes to personal association, especially sexual, freedom of association - is a core tenet of any libertarian socially progressive ideology worth it’s salt. And that’s the kind of progressive I’m down for.
You know, I was pretty assured on my line of reasoning here until I read “I wouldn’t date black or Asian folks” and… eeeeh, maybe there’s room for nuance here.
In my defense, I’ll say it’s the way of putting it that feels icky more than the sentiment. But still. Kinda ew. Don’t know if this was a Socratic, reverse psychology thing, but if so, well played.
It’s both really, I actually do hold that viewpoint as described in the original comment, but I also wanted to say it in a way that conveyed why some folks might be made uncomfortable by rhetoric like that.
I definitely agree it’s how you say it - but also where and when and how much you say it.
I think such preferences are fine obviously, but I’d question the motives of anyone who goes around claiming that often and considers it a large part of their identity. Context is everything in the end.
Well, yeah, but that’s the point. It’s “I’m not into that”, as opposed to “I wouldn’t date X type of people”. The point is you can not be into things without it being a political statement. Even if your political line of choice tends to favor a particular aesthetic.
You lost me there. Aesthetic? Maybe a statement of preference in a certain context like a public forum on an unrelated subject, yes, can be a political statement, but the preference itself is completely apolitical in nature, IMO. This isn’t art, it’s just a matter of whether you’re into something or not sexually, which is usually something that comes before a political viewpoint, or any conscious thought for that matter.
No, but you’re a hypocrite.
Why would you be? You can be absolutely aware of the social patterns imposed on you, including those that are discriminatory or unfair, and still be subject to their effects.
Humans build a lot of their psyche by socializing. From aesthetic preference to sexual arousal or choices of flavor and texture for food. You’re not a hypocrite for not liking spicy food growing up in a culture with milder tastes and you’re not a hypocrite for finding traditional gendered aesthetics attractive after growing up in a culture that reinforced them at you at every turn.
You’re a hypocrite if you find those distasteful or exploitative and still perpetuate them forward to your kids, but even if you don’t, you’re not the only influence they have.
See, that’s why this is a bit of a bummer. This fiction on leftist circles that you can change a deeply ingrained societal pattern overnight or you’re a failure or a hypocrite is not just unrealistic, it’s kind of ignorant and mean spirited. You should be concerned with not making things worse and moving them in the right direction, but you shouldn’t always take the maximalist approach and assume you’re responsible for enforcing overnight radical change.
That’s how right wingers keep setting up their dumb absurdity checks. They just dare progressives to go maximal on every stupid detail and then point at it and call it a lack of common sense. You can recognize a consequence of inequality without enforcing a complete solution instantly. Change takes time, even on an individual level.
But it feels odd to single them out rather than who would really perpetuate.
You’re right, the difference is that I’m reading it in bad faith and you’re reading it in good faith.
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Love seeing progressive people dismiss the experiences of men
Keep up the bigoted work soldier
Huh? I didn’t dismiss either OP’s or the other commenters’s experience.
But I’m not going to jump to conclusions blindly at your say-so or he-said-she-said or your insults, because when you look at statistics: consistently, across a decade, across all age groups, women are far more supportive of LGBT folks, even the T in the UK (TERF Island).
I know this is a popular go-to thought terminating cliche for “bothsidesbad” type people, but beyond empathizing, what do you expect me to do exactly?
I am sorry to hear you had shitty experiences with progressive women. I had only good experiences with women period, even those on the older side, and I’m a trans woman in the UK. It’s your word against mine unless we have studies and data and statistics, and unless you can demonstrate me some to support an actual argument, this conversation is pointless.
If you have no such data, then at least pose a hypothetical, proposes a mechanical explanation, suggest methodological flaws in existing data, but don’t expect the world to adjust to your experiences or opinions.
You have no self reflection abilities
Aight, so you are just trolling by saying random words with no meaning or relevance. Shouldn’t you be called smoothestsapphic instead because you’re a fucking smooth brain?
Reflect on that and grow the fuck up and speak like an adult.
You trolling and then dismissing me when I tell you to self reflect is funnier than you’ll realize.
Go on then enlighten me, what am I missing? What is it that I’m not self reflecting on? I’m the most self-aware person I know frankly, but I’m happy to accept I have blind spots, eager, even, so stop posturing and start talking.
IME of having dated mostly progressive women… they are the ones perpetuating it the most while shouting in public that they aren’t doing that. Or that they can’t be biased because they are women and therefore nothing they think is wrong… only men can be homophobic in their minds.
That sucks, I’m sorry to hear that.
Hopefully your experience is merely anecdotal. I’d need to have some numbers or a study before I change my mind personally though
if they do that, they aren’t really “progressive”.